World Youth Day Madrid 2011 officially disavows any connection with Michael Voris
July 25, 2011 by Patrick Madrid
Filed under Patrick's Blog
This is quite unusual, perhaps even unprecedented, in the 27-year history of the Vatican-sponsored World Youth Day (WYD) events held every three years in a major city around the world. The official WYD website contains the following announcement in which it takes the remarkable step of publicly spurning American Catholic Internet commentator Michael Voris.
It has come to our attention that Michael Voris, a US based media producer, is scheduled to offer independent catechesis sessions out of a hotel in Madrid during World Youth Day 2011. There has been some confusion regarding his affiliation with World Youth Day. Michael Voris, the clergy and the laity associated with him, and their media efforts “Real Catholic TV” and “No Bull in Madrid” are not in any way recognized or approved by World Youth Day 2011.
Catechesis at World Youth Day is offered by Bishops of the Catholic Church in union with Pope Benedict XVI, who has invited the young people of the world to join him in Madrid for this celebration of faith and life. The Vatican’s Pontifical Council for the Laity selects and invites Bishops, and only Bishops, from around the world to conduct Catechesis sessions at WYD in various languages.
Participants in the World Youth Day 2011 Cultural Program must be recognized and endorsed by the Bishops and Episcopal Conferences of their respective countries. Participants were selected for Cultural program by the World Youth Day organization in close collaboration with the Pontifical Council for the Laity. Those groups participating in the World Youth Day 2011 Cultural Festival have been selected because, through their various activities, they promote the authentic teaching and unity of the Roman Catholic Church and have been endorsed by their local Bishop and Espiscopal conference. Michael Voris, “Real Catholic TV” and “No Bull in Madrid” did not receive such endorsement from their Bishop or Episcopal Conference.
Michael Voris, “Real Catholic TV” and the program “No Bull in Madrid” are not accredited to or recognized by World Youth Day 2011. . . . (continue reading)
If Catholic Answers would have done better to work with MV than to work against him?
The Archbishops are appointed by the Holy Father and represent him in their dioceses. I take exception to Voris advertising that he will be giving “No Holds Barred” talks on the Church’s teaching on Sex without the endorsement of the Church. We have four teenage children. The oldest three went to WYD with our parish youth group and I would have been very upset if any of them had left the WYD site, in a strange city to go to a hotel in the eveinig to listen to a man’s opinion of what the Church teaches regarding sex. He has no authority and no accountability to teach such things to young teenagers.
The Holy Father is our supreme authority!
Amen and Amen! Wonderful response.
Right on, Jame! Couldn’t have said it better
A brief PS
I have done an INJUSTICE to Real Catholic TV by placing the holy preaching in the future. The holy priest is already on the premium channel. Just it was somehow masked by the multitude of programs. During the short time since I am a premium subscriber there have been an explosion of various programs and I just cannot keep up!:)
It’s his passionate style. And you have to think he is also another human soul like us with all his defects trying to be a saint as well. So if his personality gets the better of him, then we should just focus on his message. He just loves Christ and just wants to get the message out about defending Him and His Church. Michael is human is all am saying and am sure he would be happy to have a constructive criticism. Then you can email him to tell him that maybe he had misinterpreted the woman’s question and shouldn’t have called her a “heretic” etc. That’s fraternal correction that the Gospel is calling us to do.
I was a regular viewer of the Vortex, but stopped watching it after viewing Mr. Voris’ piece on how others on the internet were being uncharitable in “tone” towards a particular high-profile priest who has recently been in the news due to a scandal surrounding him. I just couldn’t believe what I was hearing. It was hypocrisy to me. Chastising others for employing the very method he uses himself on a consistent basis. Cockiness and zeal are not the same, although, on occasions, they do share the same space. It also made me wonder if I had not become desensitized to his “in your face” style and, if so, why should that be considered a good thing?
Once I had a very specific question about salvation, and I wrote an email to MV. He wrote back quickly but told me he did not want to answer my question in email. Instead, he gave me his personal cell phone number and I talked with him for 20 minutes or so as he was in transit to another meeting. When it comes to salvation, especially the salvation of others, he is serious. I believe helping others in this regard is his prime motivation. The reason he stands out so much is because few are as bold as he is in trying to do it.
God bless him
I mean this article: http://www.catholica.nl/archief/16882/orthodoxe-katholieken-niet-welkom-op-wjd-madrid
All I will say is that many bishops, cardinals, priests, nuns, etc. are right now burning in HELL. Yes, they are with satan, as they served him and lost his sheep. But hey, do not trust me, why don’t you read what MANY REAL SAINTS have said about that, or what about our Lady of La Salette or even Fatima. I hope they enjoy their time on earth because Jesus Christ is coming soon.
Augustine said: “and is quite selective in which teachings of Holy Mother Church they endorse?”
Well, at least you admit what he chooses to endorse is indeed the teachings of Holy Mother Church.
Indeed, not unlike the task that Luther charged himself with. In the end, the result is the same: the breaking of the body of Christ. Thanks to the likes of Vorris, the faithful will feel justified to leave the Church, pretty much as we’ve been seeing with the followers of John Corapi.
And by the way, Sam Marshall, you wrote: “regardless of the gossip or financial harm that often results…” That’s bull. Voris takes no financial risks with his mouthing off. He’s preaching to the angry choir, and they won’t cancel their subscriptions as long as he keeps throwing red meat. Which puts him in a bind, doesn’t it? If he wants to keep making a living, he has to keep feeding the angry. I am not buying.
More vitriol!
And of course, leaving your message here makes sense why?
Well, Mr. Madrid, if Mr. Voris is reading, then let me grab his ear:
Mr. Voris: Your business model is going to lead you into schism with the church. You will not be able to maintain this game where every day there is some new outrage, without finally having to leave the church you say you love, because your economic survival will demand it. If you start praising the bishops, praising the church instead of the daily rant, your subscriptions will dry up. This is not a hate note. This is one Catholic warning another that he may be endangering himself, and therefore something you should be sympathetic to hearing. You are not fomenting a love of the church, you are fomenting hate of other Catholics and of the bishops who are given their authority through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, and you will answer to God for it. The church will always be imperfectly run, Peter was imperfect, too, but you would not be free to sneer at him or foment scandalous hate for him, without displeasing Jesus. You should think about that. You often say good things that I actually agree with, but I cannot watch you above a minute because I can’t what someone else in this thread called the “snotty teenager” thing. Maybe you don’t realize how bad it’s become. You weren’t always this annoying, but I can’t watch your videos any more.
Jesus Christ our Lord himself kicked out the unfaithful. If a schism happens it will be for the lack of love to our Blessed Mother and her son Jesus Christ. Do not put the blame on anyone else for the decisions and actions of others. What about being mature and acting like grownups?
I don’t believe Patrick Madrid is slighting Michael Voris. His reporting of this is, in my mind, factual and non-emotional like some other blog sites. I commend him for that.
Thank you, Stu.
Sam, I am at a loss to know why you would say that I slighted Michael Voris. Is it simply because I brought attention to this admittedly strange step that the WYD committee took? If so, how does that slight him? If anything, my posting this draws more attention to Michael than anything else.
Also, unless you can provide an example of where I “tiptoe through the difficulty that is being experienced in the Church today,” then I call upon you to retract this charge against me and the false insinuation that I refrain from speaking out on issues because I might lose “book sales” as a result. That is a base and mean-spirited thing for you to say and you have no grounds for saying it either. Perhaps you never hear my “Open Line” radio show (Thursdays from 3-5 p.m. ET) on the EWTN Radio network, but I can assure you that I have to deal head-on with the very issues you allude to on practically every show. If you don’t believe me, take a listen to my most recent show: http://ewtn.edgeboss.net/wmedia/ewtn/audiolibrary/ol_07252011.mp3
P.S. I forgot to mention that you might want to pay particular attention to the call that starts at the 56:00 minute mark for an example of what I mean.
Tuning in late on this, but I want to state that I have great respect for Patrick Madrid’s bringing this injustice to light. He has been exceptional in allowing comments to show in a very timely manner. Patrick, you’ve been very fair in all of this. I’m sorry you got caught in the crossfire. Unfair to you and uncalled for.
God bless you and thank you.
Could it have to do that CTV often snides the true shepherds of the Church, fosters disunity with them, showing no respect for their office and is quite selective in which teachings of Holy Mother Church they endorse?
***I sent the following inquiry to the WYD folks:***
“In light of the recent statement by WYD regarding the medial outlet run by Michael Voris, I would be interested in obtaining a full listing of other known events/individuals appearing in Madrid during this timeframe that are not approved.
Thanks for your help.
Respectfully,
Stu”
***And got the following response:***
“It´s great you want to be aware of the approved events going on during World Youth Day. At this point there is no “list” as to what is approved and what is not. However, as soon as all the events are approved we will be publishing an “approved” list on the website, so if something´s not on there, then it´s not approved. Keep checking the website for future updates!
Thanks,
JMJ”
similar robo-response we always get from the politicians these days. Will there be a starbucks though?
I think the response makes this incident even more puzzling. Why did they feel the need to single out Michael Voris? Without having an opinion one way or the other, I am interested in knowing such.
They have rankled a lot of feathers from the hierarchy and liberal Catholics which still make up most of the bureaucracy of the USCCB.
Really? I thought it was a perfectly fine response. Did you EXPECT them to have a “list” of “unapproved” groups?
I didn’t know what to expect. But the fact that they haven’t taken the time to identify other groups, that will certainly be there, in an unapproved status is significant. If the standard way for people to know if a group is not official is by looking at the approved list, then why not let that be the standard for Michael Voris?
Yes, Amy that is the stated reason. I’m quite confident that they most likely have received inquiries about other groups as well or are we to believe that people have only asked about Voris? There is more to this story than we know.
He wants to save souls – how, by sneering at them and being sarcastic to them? Mother Teresa never did it that way. She spoke up, sure. But she was always humble, and always loving in how she did it. She respected the dignity of others. And this is precisely where Voris is lacking. He says many good things, but yeah, he is mostly a clanging gong preaching to his personal choir. Without love, he is nothing.
Have you ever read any of St John Vianney’s sermons? He certainly was not “nice”.
Re: Mark’s comment. Actually the Pew US Religious Landscape Survey found that 2.6% of American adults are converts to Catholicism or roughly 6.5 million which is about 8.5% of the whole American Catholic body.
There’s a lot of us out there.
When we offered the Called & Gifted at World Youth Day in Sydney, we went through quite a vetting process and appropriately so. In such a setting, we were no long presenting as independent lay Catholics but are participating in the Church’s formal teaching office (by delegation, of course, not right). When we train our teachers, we always make it clear that when teaching for us, they are teaching on behalf of the Church and all the discipline of that part of the pastoral office applies – just as it does to a priest giving a homily at Mass. Our job at that moment is not to express our feelings or pet peeves but to reflect as best we can the heart and mind of Christ and his Church.
I’m glad someone with clout finally held Voris accountable – and in a public way that he couldn’t just bluster his way out of. It looks like the “No Bull In Madrid” website has been toned down a great deal and now has a specific statement that Voris is not endorsed by World Youth Day.
I’ve been reading the life of Frank Duff, founder of the Legion of Mary. He was both a passionate apostolic genius and very docile. He faced two decades of direct and indirect opposition from his own Archbishop even as the Legion spread around the world. Duff would make his best case but if the Archbishop said “close it down” that particular initiative was closed down without a whimper. In the days before the Second Vatican Council, the sort of open hostility and disrespect toward bishops routinely manifested around the blogosphere would have been unthinkable and would have been suppressed very quickly. Duff received a standing ovation from the 2,500 bishops attending the 4th session of the Vatican Council but he would have died rather than talk publicly about bishops the way Catholics online feel free to do on a daily basis.
Sherry:
Remember the clerical sexual abuse crisis? Remember how bishops were responsible for covering up and shuffling? And remember how in their vaunted anti-abuse efforts bishops are still not held accountable?
It’s okay for the laity to criticize bishops. It’s okay for the liberals to state their opinion of Chaput and Burke and it’s okay for the conservatives to ask why a liberal bishop won’t obey the Pope on liturgical matters. Really. It’s okay.
(But of course …with you I know that it’s not the liberals mocking Burke’s cappa magna that gets your goat…you’re okay with that. It’s always the “orthodox” that are the objects of your scorn.)
“When the Faith is in imminent peril, prelates ought to be accused by their subjects, even in public.” – St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica
Whoa, STD. Your rage jumps off the page. Careful that your anger doesn’t cloud your vision. Who said “all of them” ought to be accused? Not me, not Voris. So please don’t twist words.
Any prelate who does not preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ in its entirety has a very heavy responsibility for the souls he puts at risk. He is unfaithful to his calling as a shepherd. Do you deny that there are wolves out there masquerading as shepherds?
There are good and faithful prelates, thanks be to God. No one points the finger at them. But not all are faithful.
Here’s another quote from a saint and doctor of the Church:
“The walls of hell are lined with the skulls of bishops.”
If you have any quarrel with that, take it up with St. John Chrysostom, not me.
Not all Bishops but when there is need… any faithful Catholic *OUGHT*:
http://www.catholicvote.org/discuss/?p=19205
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
July 26, 2011
REALCATHOLICTV.COM THANKS UNITED STATES CONFERENCE OF CATHOLIC BISHOPS FOR CLARIFICATION ON ROLE AT WORLD YOUTH DAY
SOUTH BEND, IN – The faithful who work at http://www.realcatholictv.com would like to thank the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops for drawing attention to our existence and scheduled contributions to the upcoming World Youth Day events to be held in Madrid, Spain, as well as the launch of its new pilot program striving to address tough issues concerning sexuality and morals facing Catholic youth today, http://www.nobullinmadrid.com.
While we regret that some assistant to the Secretariat for Laity of the USCCB has not given us her approval “to participate in the cultural program”, we prefer to rely upon the higher authority of Our Lord Himself, and an Ecumenical Council of the Roman Catholic Church as it does what it can to increase the authentic Faith and Morals of the Catholic Church:
“The laity derive the right and duty to the apostolate from their union with Christ the head; incorporated into Christ’s Mystical Body through Baptism and strengthened by the power of the Holy Spirit through Confirmation, they are assigned to the apostolate by the Lord Himself.” Cf. Second Vatican Council, Decree on the Apostolate of the Laity, Apostolicam Actuositatem, 3.
For every press release that is issued mentioning our existence, more and more tangible interest in http://www.realcatholictv.com is generated on the part of ordinary Catholic faithful simply seeking straightforward information on just how to be really Catholic – not only in word, but more importantly in deed, which all too often is lacking on the part of some Dioceses in too many parishes to the grave detriment of souls. For the significant increased attention drawn to the exclusive on-line product found on http://www.realcatholictv.com, we are very grateful.
The faithful at http://www.realcatholictv.com are in full compliance with the universal norms of the Code of Canon Law, the universal legislation of the Roman Catholic Church, which in no canon muzzles ordinary Catholic faithful from using themselves on the web as genuine instruments of dissemination of Catholic principles. To the contrary, the Second Vatican Council calls upon every single Catholic to do his or her share to build up genuine observance of authentic Catholic Faith and Morals, which we only strive to achieve in a concrete and updated format resonating with the youth of today.
To learn more about us, check us out at http://www.realcatholictv.com, and http://www.nobullinmadrid.com. Press and other Media are invited to contact Ms. Susan Vance, Director of Communications, directly at 248-545-5716, or by e-mail at info@realcatholictv.com
What a snotty statement. The WYD people and “some assistant to the Secretariat for Laity of the USCCB has not given us her approval.”
Whoever wrote this sounds like a teenager with a blog.
Nice “real” Catholicism. “But more importantly in deed.” Indeed. What a fine example this is.
He doesn’t mind promoting the second vatican council when it suits his purposes, does he?
Is that for real?
That can’t be real.
Totally unprofessional, full of pride and arrogance
I dropped an email to the Voris people this morning, and they assured me it’s authentic. They plan to do a Vortex episode on this later today.
Deacon Greg Kandra
“The Deacon’s Bench”
If they would have responded with a straightforward and “Serious” release wouldn’t everyone then just say that RCTV had validated the original PR? I think so.
The WYD Org. Comm. essentially insinuated that there is something WRONG with Voris’ event… something extraordinary from all other “unaffiliated” events that will be occurring, in fact I have information that DUE TO THE PRESS RELEASE there are Bishops and Priests FORBIDDING their groups from attending the RCTV event… how is that right or fair? It isn’t… so in light of that I think that the response might rub some wrong, it is at least honest and sincere. While the WYD release is clouded in confusion and ulterior motives.
Really?
I thought it looked pretty straightforward and fair.
You might refer to today’s Vortex episode for greater understanding.
What on earth does his status as a convert or non-convert have to do with anything?
And catechesis being bad isn’t news. That catechesis was bad in 2002 is a surprise?
The USCCB endorses a Cardinal who made a contract with abortionists to kill infants and promised the state he would provide them with a free ride and who just made the Liturgy a sacramental celebration of pride in sodomy but they disavow Voris.
Of course we all know the USCCB keeps such a tight reign on catechesis that everything in our parishes and classrooms has been approved by them.
Voris doesn’t owe an apology to anyone for pointing out that the blogotrials that convict a person of being guilty of sexual abuse because he dyes his beard was not, and is not in the future, a responsible crusade for truth. It is just despicable. There are venues to find out what is going on and Mark Shea was outside of those venues just like the rest of us. Until SOLT came out with the findings, he ought not to have been a vigilante.
Did you mean “WYD” in the first line?
Or have I missed something and WW III will begin in Madrid? *grins wickedly*
I used to subscribe to RCTV through Youtube. I eventually dropped my subscription. I don’t doubt that everything that MV says along the way is authentic Catholic teaching. My issue was that it seemed like he was trying to blame everything on liberals within the Church.
It seemed to me that RC (at least MV show) was turning into the “we-hate-the-USCCB-due-to-being-over-run-by-liberals” channel.
NOTE: I in no way don’t support the liberal agenda (ie. abortion, gay pride, etc.). It’s just seeming him say nothing but how this rampant in the Church was getting me depressed. I want to hear the solid Catholic teaching we’re supposed to know rather than the constant attacks against it.
I don’t think his intention is to get you depressed. He says that many times. People who feel that way usually do not go on to explore his other words, especially in the area of apologetics and the majesty of the faith. Also, when Michael speaks about “liberals,” he has made it clear in the past, that he does not refer to the partisan political scheme of libertarianism. Although, he often includes these as well, when he speaks of “liberals” in the church, he means heretics and heterodox oriented “Catholics.”
What he says about the current condition of the church is definitely true and cannot be refuted. Instead of depressing us, it should instill more fervour and zeal in us for the authentic faith and true devotion to Our Blessed Lord and His Holy Catholic Church.
God bless his efforts, and I for one, have definitely been inspired on numerous occasions by Michael’s courageous witness for the faith.
If all you watch is the Vortex, then you will feel “negative” about things. It’s Michael’s daily rant!. It is not meant to convey people should be depressed about things. It is meant to challenge us to do something about things, prayers foremost of it. That’s why he calls attention to what is going wrong. He also does have stories that are going well like people coming back to the faith. He is calling so much attention to those unfaithful US BISHOPS because they have not shaped up! They are still leading souls to hell. So unless the unfaithful , liberal Catholic Bishops who are wolves in sheep’s clothing , changes , and repent, the laity can’t just stand back and keep silent. The end goal is to get many people to know what’s going on so they can pray for their conversions and at the same time be vigilant.
If you had subscribed to premium account of real catholic tv (which is just a measly $10 a month compared to all the gems of Catholicism you will see) , then you will see the Armour of God, Brown Bag Bible Study , Retreats , etc that are really quite good to let us grow in our spiritual life and walk with God and become an authentic soldiers for Christ in the places where we work.
Michael Voris is in good company… Remember Mother Angelica? The USCCB tried to shut down
her apostolate. We know the truth when we hear it
and Michael Voris speaks the truth about the sin in the church and is in full communion with the Magesterium.. Pray for Michael and all of us who want the truth proclaimed.
Joe your spin is so impressive, I am sure you would have no problem getting a job with the Obama Administration.
Ok yes that’s what I meant. RCTV is not approved by the local diocese, which is a requirement in order to be considered a Catholic institution. If you wan’t to get hung up on that, fine. It doesn’t take away from my point that the USCCB wasn’t involved with this decision. According to friends at the USCCB, the WYD announcement came as a surprise to them.
When this kind of attack comes, my favorite prayer is one that has kept me humble all my adult life. This is helped me in church ministery and secular work.
http://www.ewtn.com/Devotionals/Litanies/humility.htm
The Litany of Humility written by Merry Cardinal del Val.
PS thankyou Michael for you Ministery
As I said before, WYD’s decision has more to do with Voris’ lack of local episcopal approval. For whatever reason, his local ordinary, Archbishop Vigneron has not approved RealCatholicTV as a “Catholic ministry”. What does that mean? In order for a ministry or program in a diocese to call themselves Catholic they must have the approval of their local bishop to do. Why is that? The bishop is the chief catechist and liturgist (among other things) in every diocese. Our unity to the Church comes primarily through the Eucharist, but temporally it comes through the local bishop in union with the bishop of Rome. There is nothing sinister here, this is the way the Church has operated for centuries. If anyone is curious to learn more about the role of bishop in the life of the Church I recommend reading Ratzinger’s “Called to Communion”, Avery Dulles, “Magisterium”, and of course the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
One last point, Abp. Vigernon of Detroit is definitely one of the good guys. He is quite orthodox. Voris even praised his appointment as Archbishop of Detroit. I would hate to see a good bishop get sucked into Voris’ vortex.
Exactly my thoughts, J.D. However, I posted this line of thought on the RCTV facebook page (the ‘No idea if “Stu” really did this,’ post), and had my comments removed and was subsequently banned.
Oh well, not only are they lacking charity (infamously), but also obedience. It’s too bad, cause most all of their stuff if GREAT!! If they would only align themselves with the local Church and Bishop…
YES !!!!!!
I agree with you whole heartedly. He went ahead and set up his own program. I can’t wait to see it on the website.
That wasn’t really a compliment… HE decided HIS message was too important and (apparently) that the regular rules didn’t apply because HE had a message HE had to get out. The proper response would have been to recognize that he screwed up by waiting too long and let it go.
Yes, April, we can read your view.
It’s quite clear that YOU believe that Mr. Voris’ actions will be a most unwelcome event.
I’m saddened to hear that. I have yet to hear anything from him that truly merits any wrath or contempt. I would remind you that, unless Bishop Vigneron specifically directs him to remain in the ‘States, there’s no particular reason why he shouldn’t conduct his event.
I understand your point about deadlines–I hope that’s your only gripe–but I might remind you that many of our Church’s bishops..have been awfully tepid with their teaching, preaching, and living of faith.
I’ve been rather relieved by Mr. Voris’ approach really. I’m glad to see another Catholic who’s willing to address faith matters publicly in manner that reflects life as I’ve seen it.
Voris’ efforts may confuse many Catholics at WYD, but I’d say it’s better for them to deal with that now anyway.
I wound up suffering the same struggles over whose word I ought accept in my later 20’s.
It wasn’t fun.
Amy:
At WYD and other such events, groups like Voris do their own “events” all the time. In fact, there will be HUNDREDS of such events at WYD that are “not approved” and “not affiliated” with WYD. It isn’t like RCTV is doing any out of the ordinary.
What IS out of the ordinary is that the WYD website decided to single out Voris and say: “Oh by the way, he isn’t officially affiliated with us.” The chose RCTV out of the HUNDREDS of other groups that are doing the same thing…
The question is WHY… or better WHO…
Looks to me like the forces that oppose Christ are jumping into the medium of the current day – the web, blog evagelization, youtube, etc., and their tactic is to increase division and add confusion. Marketing is a tricky tool, and good marketers are almost always misunderstoood by someone. “Perception is reality” is a phrase coined with some truth, at least in the sense of how we react. Looks as if RCTV and all its marketing skills, be it because of their edginess, or because they speak truth, is the victim of the forces that be.
I personally do not support RCTV because of their extreme lack of charity, as other commenters have noted, even though I have never heard them speak heresy. Their sarcasm, even back at me in reply to my comment, is disheartening. I do not experience sarcasm from God when I am in prayer, and I do not see evidence of snappy sarcasm from Christ in the Scriptures.
Best bet, trust the Church, for even in its misfailings, the Lord will honor your obedience — this not including obedience to mortal sin, of course. Have patience with the Church, who sometimes gives the perception that she does not care about the morals of the bishops. She is slow to move, as was Our Lord on earth. This slow movement is clearly an act of mercy, not to be understood by us earthly beings. God is still in control, and Christ left us the Church to guide us. Pray and have patience.
“Looks to me like the forces that oppose Christ are jumping into the medium of the current day – the web, blog evagelization, youtube, etc. and their tactic is to increase division and add confusion.”
What is this April? Are you starting with the premise that RealCatholicTV is a part of these forces? On what evidence do you base this accusation?
It is unfortunate that they were sarcastic to you in replying to your comment. That is not the way to win people to your side. It is a big mistake on their part and I hope they learn from this.
“Best bet, trust the Church, for even in its misfailings, the Lord will honor your obedience — this not including obedience to mortal sin, of course”
Very true but please keep in mind that RealCatholicTV is a part of the church as well. That lay organizations are taking up John Paul II’s call for a new evangelization is definitely a good thing.
‘“Looks to me like the forces that oppose Christ are jumping into the medium of the current day – the web, blog evagelization, youtube, etc. and their tactic is to increase division and add confusion.”
What is this April? Are you starting with the premise that RealCatholicTV is a part of these forces? On what evidence do you base this accusation?’
All of us are under attack. RCTV is no exception. I don’t believe I indicated that RCTV is a “part of these forces” at all, nor did I make that accusation. I will kindly clear that up now. Nevertheless, my point about “perception is reality” is well-proven here, by this misunderstanding. All I was indicating is that the laity and the clergy are all under attack, as is RCTV, as is the Vatican, as are you and I, and all must be very careful and charitable. We must not add fuel to the fire.
There is confusion and division all over these comments. satan loves to divide even those that are doing good work.
Peace to you, Stewart.
haha finally Voris gets pwned. Can’t stand the man.
What Voris will teach is: “I have a separate teaching authority counter to the Church.” You have several representatives of the Magisterium present and Voris knows better? Houston, we have a problem.
Michael Voris has taught things such as “few will be saved” that are counter to historical Catholic Teaching. He is also offering an authority counter to the bishops. This could be interpreted as a schismatic act.
I’m sorry David H, but the Catholic Church has never made a declaration of how many will be saved. Jesus said few find the way that leads to salvation. david, your argument is with Jesus not Michael Voris.
David,
If Mr. Voris has ever been specific about that matter, at least he hasn’t accidentally misled people with what the Church has never taught. Growing up, I could’ve got the distinct impression that MOST WOULD be saved, because the Church chose a fairly optimistic view.
Unfortunately, while the Church hasn’t ever condemned whole hordes of people to hell exactly, neither has She precisely insisted that MOST would go to heaven either.
Mr. Voris’ comment aimed at reminding people that salvation hasn’t been guaranteed. Too many have implied something much closer to a Protestant rendering of salvation.
If the “defense” of Voris is basically “the organizers of World Youth Day don’t like him because he’s too Catholic,” does that mean his supporters are claiming he’s more Catholic than the Pope?
Um, no, Amy. Your argument doesn’t even follow.
I truly think that this is ridiculous. With anti-catholic protestents running rampant at WYD trying to convert young Catholics to “their form of Christianity”..I see Mike Voris as doing something noble. The true problem is the lukewarmness running rampant in the Church and 75% of Catholics that are not going mass. Mike Voris should be applaued for touching young hearts and trying to lead them to an authentic form of Catholic Christianity. We need more Mike Voris’ in this “One True Faith”.
Be Bold!
I just watched Mr. Vennari’s video – I agree with you, Colleen – I do hope and pray that their standards have improved and that all of the speakers and performers that they have selected are of the highest caliber.
That, I think, is the purpose of the statement, to get people to think that he is doing something illicit. When, in fact, he isn’t doing anything that a hundred other apostolates are doing in Madrid – holding events promoting and defending the Church.
What he is doing is taking his group, a Catholic Media group, and holding an event for Catholics at a CATHOLIC event. What is wrong with that?
This isnt about whether you like him or not… he doesnt SPEAK AGAINST the Church, he shouldnt be singled out as “not being endorsed.”
1. I have no idea what the agenda at WYD is, nor do I care since I won’t be there.
2. If I am irked by non-converts, it would appear I joined the wrong Church, since converts account for about 2.5% of the Church. I also married the wrong woman. And my kids, baptized in infancy must be a real source of anger for me.
3. There is no vetting process for CA or EWTN that I am aware of, and in any case, I have little to do with either besides occassionally writing for the former and yakking for the latter now and then.
4. My issues with Voris are simple, he is an unaccountable demagogue given to fomenting anger and rebellion against the bishops, given to polarizing Catholics needlessly, and given issuing his private opinions in which which suggest that disagreement with him on matters of prudence or aesthetics constitutes disagreement with Holy Church. I typically have ignored him over the years, but after receiving one too many emails from an adoring fan who believes his ever word to fall from Mount Sinai, I emitted a loud groan of frustration. I now hope to return to ignoring him.
“he is an unaccountable demagogue given to fomenting anger and rebellion against the bishops”
That is a very blanket statement. Here are bishops who have programs on RealCatholicTV.
Bishop Sheridan
Bishop Vasa
Bishop Choby
Bp. Bruskewitz
Patriarch Younan
Bishop Martino
Bishop Olmsted
Bishop Schneider
I watch RealCatholicTV. I have not seen anything that warrants these accusations. Could you please provide evidence?
Shea, you say the strangest things. You need to learn to separate your sometimes illogical feelings from fact. You strangely equate “polarizing” with Voris’ retelling the truths of the Catholic faith. Go look for yourself, he has suggested nothing that has not been taught by the Catholic Church for hundreds of years. Teachings taught by saints and popes.
This not the first time you have had a hissy fit against a brother Catholic. You call him a demagogue, which is a leader who seeks support by appealing to popular desires and prejudices rather than by using rational argument. That is demonstrably false of Voris, but it might fit you.
Shea, please learn to keep your trap shut when you about commit calumny.
“You call him a demagogue, which is a leader who seeks support by appealing to popular desires and prejudices rather than by using rational argument.”
Right. It was demagoguery to slime good Bp. Mulvey for doing exactly as he should have and suspending the corrupt and fraudulent Fr. Corapi. It was a particularly low and cheap appeal to popular desires and prejudices rather than rational argument to insinuate that the whole Corapi affair was explicable in terms of Brave Truthtelling Priest vs. shadowy cabal of gay liberals. He should have never injected himself into Corapi’s war on his bishops and superiors and he should have apologized for doing so. Instead, he has helped encourage thousands of Reactionary Dissenters to join Corapi in his rebellion and, quite possibly, in following him into schism in the coming months. He owes Bp. Mulvey, Corapi’s superiors, Corapi’s poor duped followers, and the Church an apology.
“He should have never injected himself into Corapi’s war on his bishops and superiors and he should have apologized for doing so”
Mark, I would really expect better of you.
For those uninformed, a few weekes ago RealCatholicTV did do a video regarding the Corapi affair. It was not over the guilt or nnocence of Corapi in that Michael Voris said he does not know enough about it to comment. The video was on the viciousness of the bloggers. Mark Shea was not named but he feels he was wronged and has been on his vendetta since. That’s what this is all about and the source of Shea’s attacks.
I doubt that Mark Shea was even the focus of the RCTV video. Regardless though, it sure shows what a vicious and vendictive man Mr. Shea is.
That he injected himself into Corapi’s war is a blatant lie.
Mark, for your own good please give it up already.
(quote)2. If I am irked by non-converts, it would appear I joined the wrong Church, since converts account for about 2.5% of the Church. I also married the wrong woman. And my kids, baptized in infancy must be a real source of anger for me.(/quote)
You just have a problem sharing the stage with non-Converts who are such suckers and lack that special gnosis.
Dan, you beat me to it. Nice one.
I guess I have a sour taste in my mouth from an unpleasant encounter I had with Michael during a local Catholic radio conference two years ago. It wasn’t what Michael was saying, it was how he was saying it – his angry, sarcastic approach that included stomping around the stage grew quite tiresome. He personally attacked a woman in the audience, calling her a heretic, who was trying to understand better one of his points. Complete lack of charity. I agree he forces a lot of conversations to the table that need to be discussed. He did not lead people to Christ and His Church that day – many left with the same sour taste in their mouths as I did. You can be right intellectually, but that doesn’t make you right.
I wonder if this “many” who left with a sour taste constituted a majority proportion of the audience? Even if so, I’d be curious to know how many eventually agreed with him, even if reluctantly.
Keep in mind, the Mass I attend–Novus Ordo, not TLM–requires some willingness to get acquainted because of the more traditional elements.
When someone offers a talk in any form of public discourse, there’s always a risk of mis-communication on some matter. I wasn’t there, so I can’t speak to whether Voris’ behaved uncharitably on purpose or on accident..or if in his judgement, the woman simply wished to pick a fight. It wouldn’t be the first that’s ever happened.
There is an interesting contrast here between the official disowning of Michael Voris and the Youcat catechetical materials, which had to be altered in the Italian and French versions because serious doctrinal and moral errors had somehow made their way into them. I eagerly await the official disowning of the priests and bishops responsible for these errors.
(See
http://cathnews.co.nz/2011/04/15/youcat-vatican-youth-catechism-permits-contraception-and-euthanasia/
http://m.catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=22333
http://www.chretiente.info/201104155834/erreurs-en-serie-pour-le-catechisme-«%C2%A0youcat%C2%A0»-des-jmj-2011-a-madrid/)
From canon law:
Can. 300 No association is to assume the name Catholic without the consent of competent ecclesiastical authority according to the norm of ⇒ can. 312.
Tom:
Just to be clear, Real Catholic TV is not the name of the association. Rather, it is the name of the webstite. The name of the association in question is St. Michael’s Media. Therefore, based on a strict interpretation of Canon Law as you quoted, “competent ecclesiastical authority” is not required.
God bless,
Little John
I’m willing to bet that there will be many “unendorsed” and “unrecognized” groups and speakers at WYD. I would be willing to bet that many of them will be promoting messages that are opposed to the true teahings of the Catholic Church, sowing confusion among some of the attendees. I’m sure that the WYD program office wants to prevent attendees from hearing these confusing messages – but they won’t be able to stop everyone. It is a shame that they would single out Michael Voris, and I agree with many of the posters here, that he presents the truths of the faith boldly and with more clarity than you hear in most ‘official, sanctioned’ statements. I think that he makes many good points about how watered-down and ambivalent (perhaps even anti-Catholic in some respects) so many of those who are in the position of leadership and teaching authority have become. I applaud that he continues to persevere in his attempts to raise these issues. I agree that at times it might seem a little harsh or his manner a little brusque, but, truly – how much longer can we let the takeover of the Church and the faithful by secular culture continue? Rather than just try to silence Michael, would they explain what it is that he is doing or saying that is wrong? I think that they are afraid that he is pointing out their culpability in losing the souls of those whom they are supposed to be shepherding – at least that is my opinion. I think that he brings to light many hard issues that perhaps many or most people would rather not face up to or think about.
Thanks for listening!
I totally agree with you, Ken. I guess they’re afraid of him because he tells it like is.
I would like to know what it is that he is doing that against the church teaching.
“They’re afraid of him!” Didn’t we hear that about Corapi before it turned out that he actually WAS cohabitating with a woman for years, using drugs, turning to prostitutes, and not even bothering to get faculties from the local bishop?
If “they’re afraid of him” it is only because Voris is a cynic and a fearmonger who has nothing to say about the love of Christ. If I were seeking a church I wouldn’t be attracted to the one he’s selling, so maybe they’re afraid that he will make Catholicism seem closed and hatefull. He makes his living by raging and dividing people who want to be angry. I realized that when he did his Easter Pagan video, which was overdone. Also, his “the government needs to be Catholic and democracy is bad” video was just plain nutty. Maybe WYD got a load of how Voris was promoting himself and decided he’d gone too far. I can’t watch his videos anymore.
Yes.Some things still make alot of people very angry for example, the Holy Mass:
http://acatholiclife.blogspot.com
Also see:Martin Mosebach July 24 post
http://sthughofcluny.org
Actually, Sarah, no evidence has yet been given on either side–all we have are statements from opposing parties.
This whole thing is bizarre. It goes to the whole “situation” with the ArchD of Detroit, and their “Media Protocols.”
I know that the Bishops need to safeguard the flock and for that I am grateful. What I am concerned is that there is a thought or philosophy that the only way to “control” RCTv and Voris is to “never” sanction him. It also concerns me that this message comes off as almost denouncing him which is unfair and not right. Will there be press releases on EVERY non-sanctioned event that the host committee learns of? That is the only just thing to do.
I completely understand that there are those that disagree with Voris’ “method” – we all don’t like Apple Pie. Yet, until he says or does something CONTRARY to the teachings of the Church he should not be subjected to statements such as this. I just think this is a step to far. My wife attended WYD in Rome, and I know several people that have participated in other WYDs and I have heard all sorts of stories of events that were much more controversial than what RCTv is planning. This is a statement that really calls into question the motives and direction of certain entities.
I dont think this is the end of the story and hope that people who appreciate Voris and find his message efficacious will not fear going to his event. It is a legitimate and faithful (to the Church) event and I am sure many young folks will be positively affected if they attend.
@Lake From what I have heard from a few friends at the USCCB is that they were equally surprised by the WYD statement. This was all done by the WYD staff in consort with the Pontifical Council for Laity. They apparently have pretty rigorous guidelines for who can be an approved presenter or exhibitor at WYD. This is good. I actually just saw these guidelines prevented a liberal group from taking out an ad promoting condom use.
Patrick … you are so right … unprecedented! I am the owner of the RCTV.com domain name and teamed up with Voris to launch RCTV in September of 2008. So let me make a statement for the record …
Nothing RealCatholicTV.com has ever done has been done with “approval” owing to the fact that “approval” is not required. The laity, or their efforts, do not operate as ecclesial bodies or functionaries (e.g., prayer groups and Catholic Bible Studies do not need “permission” or “approval” before commencing activities) nor is there any real mechanism in place for obtaining such approval.
For instance, not a single Vortex episode (nearly 800 to date) has ever been “approved” in the sense of receiving some official endorsement by the Church, nor are they required to be “approved” unless there is a claim to be speaking for the Church (which there is not).
Our efforts in Madrid are solely our own undertaking, as is everything that we do. We consult greatly and regularly with various clergy and religious in many of our endeavors, and we are very happy for their support.
The work of the laity, however, is NOT the work of the clergy.
Additionally, even with the “approval” of the Church on the work of various “official” Church undertakings, we see clearly that in many instances (as with “catholic” universities and hospitals and social justice efforts) this official seal of “approval” is rendered meaningless by the actions or intentions of some of those involved.
So, while we grateful for the clarification on the part of WYD officials that our efforts are not “approved,” our response is, “Thank you for clearing up a matter that we failed to see needed clarification. We never said we were “approved” and “approval” is not required for lay endeavors on behalf of the Faith.”
So glad to hear from you on this matter. I adore RCTV.
Just think how confusing it would be if you were in in Voris’ shoes, Patrick:
“Madrid’s Madrid Events Not Sponsored By World Youth Day Madrid”
🙂